Using Shotguns During Bail Enforcement Operations
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One of the most common questions I am asked by new investigators working bail fugitive recovery assignments is, “Should I carry a shotgun while attempting an apprehension?” It is certainly common to see law enforcement officers employ shotguns during arrests and other disturbances when working with a partner but a shotgun is still considered a secondary weapon to the handgun in law enforcement operations. Our work, of course, is very different altogether and a “long gun” is simply not a practical weapon for bail enforcement agents to carry into the field for the following reasons:
1) Weight: A shotgun is heavy and cumbersome which becomes an issue in foot chases, grappling with a hostile subject or while in cramped quarters searching for your fugitive.
2) Searches and Frisking: What do you do with your shotgun while having to climb into attics, basements, rooftops, fireplaces, crawl spaces, tunnels, etc? Where do you safely put your shotgun while conducting a pat down of the defendant while looking for weapons or contraband? Managing such a large weapon will not allow to keep your hands free in these situations.
3) Hand-to-hand Combat: What if…
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Sites That Link to this Post
- Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine | February 10, 2009
- Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine | February 10, 2009
- Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine | April 4, 2011
- Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine | April 4, 2011
I am in total agreement with Ruffin. Never, during the course of an investigation or apprehension, did I find the need or even the want to have a shotgun with me. If anything it would be a great hindrance and even worse a liability. We have to remember that you may get paid for surrendering the defendant, but in the civil case that follows you will have to articulate why you shot the defendant with a beanbag at close range breaking ribs or worse killing him. The days of bring em back dead or alive are over. In my opinion the shotgun has no place in the bail enforcement industry.
Luke Farrell
Aequitas-Services.com
Your Bail Recovery Solution
Pa. Office:610-441-3622
De. Office:302-685-4179
I am in total agreement with Ruffin. Never, during the course of an investigation or apprehension, did I find the need or even the want to have a shotgun with me. If anything it would be a great hindrance and even worse a liability. We have to remember that you may get paid for surrendering the defendant, but in the civil case that follows you will have to articulate why you shot the defendant with a beanbag at close range breaking ribs or worse killing him. The days of bring em back dead or alive are over. In my opinion the shotgun has no place in the bail enforcement industry.
Luke Farrell
Aequitas-Services.com
Your Bail Recovery Solution
Pa. Office:610-441-3622
De. Office:302-685-4179
I have seen this argument against long guns too many times. Handguns, shotguns and rifles are just tools. When you need that tool you had better have that tool. Never limit your options no matter how poltically correct or incorrect it may appear. I have worked for Bail Bondsmen all over the U.S. for more than a quarter of a century. When Dog was in jail I was sending people to jail. Most pick ups require no guns and no fighting just common sense. Yes most women can arrest bail skips. The exception is the one that is really bad and cares nothing for his life or yours. The 6’4″ 250 lb. felon on PCP will try to destroy everyone and everything in his path man, woman or child. You just went to arrest this felon on a DUI charge and none of his priors show. Too late now you better have what you need now 5 seconds is too late. Never, Never, Never limit your options.
I have seen this argument against long guns too many times. Handguns, shotguns and rifles are just tools. When you need that tool you had better have that tool. Never limit your options no matter how poltically correct or incorrect it may appear. I have worked for Bail Bondsmen all over the U.S. for more than a quarter of a century. When Dog was in jail I was sending people to jail. Most pick ups require no guns and no fighting just common sense. Yes most women can arrest bail skips. The exception is the one that is really bad and cares nothing for his life or yours. The 6’4″ 250 lb. felon on PCP will try to destroy everyone and everything in his path man, woman or child. You just went to arrest this felon on a DUI charge and none of his priors show. Too late now you better have what you need now 5 seconds is too late. Never, Never, Never limit your options.
I agree with Bill Betts. How many have made the ultimate sacrifice by worrying about politics first. Training, training, training. Every scenario is different but you must have the best tools for the job. I have about 23 years experience. It seems to be two choices presented in this scenario. If a bailee is at gun point with a shotgun chambered with a non lethal round. Its seems he will get a broken rib or worse death. If the bailee is at gun point with a Glock 45 shot center mass lets pray he will survive. In the civil case that follows when you articulate what happened. You can say there was an attempt made to use non lethal first. Also was there a reason to fire any rounds? My point is there are many tools in our tool box. Lets use the right tool for the right threat. In my view a shotgun chambered with one or two non lethal rounds first and followed by lethal rounds is the best weapon for close quarters. I have not heard of this weapon used for any other tactic except breaching and close quarters.
Shit happens
Stay safe and be ready
Ray Paige (raypaigebea@aol.com)
I agree with Bill Betts. How many have made the ultimate sacrifice by worrying about politics first. Training, training, training. Every scenario is different but you must have the best tools for the job. I have about 23 years experience. It seems to be two choices presented in this scenario. If a bailee is at gun point with a shotgun chambered with a non lethal round. Its seems he will get a broken rib or worse death. If the bailee is at gun point with a Glock 45 shot center mass lets pray he will survive. In the civil case that follows when you articulate what happened. You can say there was an attempt made to use non lethal first. Also was there a reason to fire any rounds? My point is there are many tools in our tool box. Lets use the right tool for the right threat. In my view a shotgun chambered with one or two non lethal rounds first and followed by lethal rounds is the best weapon for close quarters. I have not heard of this weapon used for any other tactic except breaching and close quarters.
Shit happens
Stay safe and be ready
Ray Paige (raypaigebea@aol.com)
Let me start by saying this: If you are entering a dwelling (The dwelling of your subject), everyone is fair game. What does that mean? It means that whatever posture, whatever means you need to control your environment is fair game. When my group has gone on enforcement cases we routinely have one person with a pistol grip shotgun as a point man. This person is positioned such that they can’t be ambushed yet at the same time is watching who is coming from where and can verbalize the order to “Keep your hands in plain site”….”move to the (wherever you need them to go)…etc. A shotgun pointed directly at an individual has the ability, thanks to Hollywood and television, to promote the notion that the shotgun is something you can’t escape its destructive force. Having complete control of your environment keeps everyone involved safe and if using a shotgun works to make that happen, so be it. It doesn’t promote or provoke violence, just control, and someone has to be in that position and it has to be you! If ‘anyone’ challenges that when you have the right to be where you are, it’s roll the dice and take your chances I always say! Me and my guys are going home, alive.
Let me start by saying this: If you are entering a dwelling (The dwelling of your subject), everyone is fair game. What does that mean? It means that whatever posture, whatever means you need to control your environment is fair game. When my group has gone on enforcement cases we routinely have one person with a pistol grip shotgun as a point man. This person is positioned such that they can’t be ambushed yet at the same time is watching who is coming from where and can verbalize the order to “Keep your hands in plain site”….”move to the (wherever you need them to go)…etc. A shotgun pointed directly at an individual has the ability, thanks to Hollywood and television, to promote the notion that the shotgun is something you can’t escape its destructive force. Having complete control of your environment keeps everyone involved safe and if using a shotgun works to make that happen, so be it. It doesn’t promote or provoke violence, just control, and someone has to be in that position and it has to be you! If ‘anyone’ challenges that when you have the right to be where you are, it’s roll the dice and take your chances I always say! Me and my guys are going home, alive.
I have been a use of force instructor for over 4 years now and when it comes to 12Ga LTL rounds we teach to shoot the upper leg there are not internal organs there to damage.
As for what your position will be when and if a law suit comes first thing is your report 2nd your action has to be based on the totally of circumstances. When writing your report one thing to keep in mind is that you have you justify your actions to a bank teller or stay at home mom that has never had a violent confrontation in their life An example is the perp says “I’m going to kick your head in” now we all have heard this before in some fashion, But what else was there was he drunk was it dark did he say that quietly or yelling while advancing on you. You have to paint the picture in your report because this type of action will be filed 1 day before the 3rd year statute of limitations.
While I agree and disagree with the author of this article what works for others doesn’t work for some. Stay safe out there.
I have been a use of force instructor for over 4 years now and when it comes to 12Ga LTL rounds we teach to shoot the upper leg there are not internal organs there to damage.
As for what your position will be when and if a law suit comes first thing is your report 2nd your action has to be based on the totally of circumstances. When writing your report one thing to keep in mind is that you have you justify your actions to a bank teller or stay at home mom that has never had a violent confrontation in their life An example is the perp says “I’m going to kick your head in” now we all have heard this before in some fashion, But what else was there was he drunk was it dark did he say that quietly or yelling while advancing on you. You have to paint the picture in your report because this type of action will be filed 1 day before the 3rd year statute of limitations.
While I agree and disagree with the author of this article what works for others doesn’t work for some. Stay safe out there.
Christopher,
This is a well thought out and articulate reply. We are glad to have you here participating in these very important discussions on Pursuitmag.com.
Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Don’t forget to join us on http://irbsearch.ning.com/
Stephanie Mitchell
Editor of Pursuit Magazine
http://www.PursuitMag.com
The Journal of Professional Excellence for Investigators Subscribe and read past articles and issues, all for FREE!
Ofc: (877) 363-4887
Fax: (877) 761-8264
Christopher,
This is a well thought out and articulate reply. We are glad to have you here participating in these very important discussions on Pursuitmag.com.
Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Don’t forget to join us on http://irbsearch.ning.com/
Stephanie Mitchell
Editor of Pursuit Magazine
http://www.PursuitMag.com
The Journal of Professional Excellence for Investigators Subscribe and read past articles and issues, all for FREE!
Ofc: (877) 363-4887
Fax: (877) 761-8264
Good read! While a shotgun can absolutely be an effective tool for BEA, any agent carrying and deploying this weapon should first obtain training specific to the shotgun and BEA tactics.
Good read! While a shotgun can absolutely be an effective tool for BEA, any agent carrying and deploying this weapon should first obtain training specific to the shotgun and BEA tactics.
Thank you! It is refreshing to read intelligent discussions that are well thought and deliver the point concisely. Our world, the world of the BEA, is changing and bright minds are going to be needed to accomplish the tasks that are ahead as we all know many of those tasks will not require a tool other than a pen.
Thank you! It is refreshing to read intelligent discussions that are well thought and deliver the point concisely. Our world, the world of the BEA, is changing and bright minds are going to be needed to accomplish the tasks that are ahead as we all know many of those tasks will not require a tool other than a pen.
I do use a shotgun 15 % of the time. I have a 590 with the 14′ barrel (NFA). It is more compact and lighter that the standard model. If the subject runs our youngest and fastest is des. to chase. I do not work alone. Witha shotgun that will be amistake .
I do use a shotgun 15 % of the time. I have a 590 with the 14′ barrel (NFA). It is more compact and lighter that the standard model. If the subject runs our youngest and fastest is des. to chase. I do not work alone. Witha shotgun that will be amistake .