Comments on: Using Shotguns During Bail Enforcement Operations

By: H. Harris

H. Harris — Fri, 05 Aug 2011 20:36:40 +0000

I do use a shotgun 15 % of the time. I have a 590 with the 14′ barrel (NFA). It is more compact and lighter that the standard model. If the subject runs our youngest and fastest is des. to chase. I do not work alone. Witha shotgun that will be amistake .

By: Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine

Being a Prepared Executive Protection Professional | Pursuit Magazine — Mon, 04 Apr 2011 22:56:49 +0000

[...] 9. Sensible Choice in Armament. See may article on the use of shotguns and assault rifles. [...]

By: Brian D. Raybold

Brian D. Raybold — Wed, 16 Sep 2009 14:47:23 +0000

Thank you! It is refreshing to read intelligent discussions that are well thought and deliver the point concisely. Our world, the world of the BEA, is changing and bright minds are going to be needed to accomplish the tasks that are ahead as we all know many of those tasks will not require a tool other than a pen.

By: Jae

Jae — Wed, 09 Sep 2009 02:55:26 +0000

Good read! While a shotgun can absolutely be an effective tool for BEA, any agent carrying and deploying this weapon should first obtain training specific to the shotgun and BEA tactics.

By: Stephanie Mitchell

Stephanie Mitchell — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:16:03 +0000

Christopher,

This is a well thought out and articulate reply. We are glad to have you here participating in these very important discussions on Pursuitmag.com.

Keep up the good work and stay safe.

Don’t forget to join us on http://irbsearch.ning.com/

Stephanie Mitchell
Editor of Pursuit Magazine
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By: Christopher Meyerson

Christopher Meyerson — Tue, 08 Sep 2009 22:03:28 +0000

I have been a use of force instructor for over 4 years now and when it comes to 12Ga LTL rounds we teach to shoot the upper leg there are not internal organs there to damage.
As for what your position will be when and if a law suit comes first thing is your report 2nd your action has to be based on the totally of circumstances. When writing your report one thing to keep in mind is that you have you justify your actions to a bank teller or stay at home mom that has never had a violent confrontation in their life An example is the perp says “I’m going to kick your head in” now we all have heard this before in some fashion, But what else was there was he drunk was it dark did he say that quietly or yelling while advancing on you. You have to paint the picture in your report because this type of action will be filed 1 day before the 3rd year statute of limitations.
While I agree and disagree with the author of this article what works for others doesn’t work for some. Stay safe out there.

By: Dave Gerhardt

Dave Gerhardt — Sat, 20 Jun 2009 19:21:07 +0000

Let me start by saying this: If you are entering a dwelling (The dwelling of your subject), everyone is fair game. What does that mean? It means that whatever posture, whatever means you need to control your environment is fair game. When my group has gone on enforcement cases we routinely have one person with a pistol grip shotgun as a point man. This person is positioned such that they can’t be ambushed yet at the same time is watching who is coming from where and can verbalize the order to “Keep your hands in plain site”….”move to the (wherever you need them to go)…etc. A shotgun pointed directly at an individual has the ability, thanks to Hollywood and television, to promote the notion that the shotgun is something you can’t escape its destructive force. Having complete control of your environment keeps everyone involved safe and if using a shotgun works to make that happen, so be it. It doesn’t promote or provoke violence, just control, and someone has to be in that position and it has to be you! If ‘anyone’ challenges that when you have the right to be where you are, it’s roll the dice and take your chances I always say! Me and my guys are going home, alive.

By: Raymond paige

Raymond paige — Fri, 12 Jun 2009 02:50:39 +0000

I agree with Bill Betts. How many have made the ultimate sacrifice by worrying about politics first. Training, training, training. Every scenario is different but you must have the best tools for the job. I have about 23 years experience. It seems to be two choices presented in this scenario. If a bailee is at gun point with a shotgun chambered with a non lethal round. Its seems he will get a broken rib or worse death. If the bailee is at gun point with a Glock 45 shot center mass lets pray he will survive. In the civil case that follows when you articulate what happened. You can say there was an attempt made to use non lethal first. Also was there a reason to fire any rounds? My point is there are many tools in our tool box. Lets use the right tool for the right threat. In my view a shotgun chambered with one or two non lethal rounds first and followed by lethal rounds is the best weapon for close quarters. I have not heard of this weapon used for any other tactic except breaching and close quarters.

Shit happens
Stay safe and be ready
Ray Paige (raypaigebea@aol.com)